Cooperatives and MSMEs Cabinet Secretary Simon Chelugui was on Tuesday tasked to explain why the Credit Reference Bureau (CRB) does not yet have access to Hustler Fund data and information to enable help the customers build a good credit history.

CS Chelugui who spoke on Citizen TV’s Tonight Show fumbled on his words in giving perspective to the issue despite saying that the government was working to ensure the Fund’s users had a good credit score, which is the sole mandate of CRB.

He said that the government was yet to actualize a good partnership with CRB and was still banking on more time to develop a relationship.

“We haven’t reached there because we are only 18 months; it is a product we are developing but ultimately we believe we will have the largest information on Credit Bureau,” said Chelugui.

“We have not closed anyone out, especially the CRB. We are actually developing a partnership with CRB right now but we needed to build some database so that by the time we engage because we are approaching 2 years by November this year, we will have enough information.”

The show host Yvonne Okwara wondered why 18 months into President William Ruto’s flagship project, the CS was still arguing that the government required more time, adding that the taxpayers deserve accountability.

In his response, Chelugui said, “We need to see the borrowers transact at least 3 times.”

Okwara disputed the CS’s sentiment reminding him of his earlier claim that about 2 million borrowers had borrowed over 10 times.

“You are saying 2 to 3 times but you did say that the ones that you have graduated or rehabilitated have borrowed up to 10 times, so why is the information not available to the CRB?” She asked.

In a rejoinder, Chelugui however claimed that the aforesaid group of people had, according to the government obtained a good credit score but the same tool used by the government to determine the credit score was yet to be adopted by CRB.

“We have 2 million borrowers who according to us have demonstrated good credit status and borrowed over 10 times,” said the CS.

He added, “We believe in the next two years we can still deepen information from these hustlers and as I speak to you, we are engaged with CRB to develop a scoring tool for them …it is not all lost.”

Okwara however wondered why the CRB and the government used a different scoring tool to address the same issue.

“What is wrong with the scoring tool that they have?" She posed.

The CS in his response said the CRB has a high scorecard as compared to the government since they deal with banks and other big financial institutions, a claim which resulted in a back and forth as the interviewer sought to acquire facts.

“The scoring tool they have could be very high because one, the way they structured their scoring is mostly from banks or big financial institutions,” he said.

Yvonne noted: "Actually they take their scoring from every lending institution Saccos, Banks and digital lenders."

Chelugui responded: "Those are conventional Financial institutions. This is a fellow who we went out, picked up his phone got Ksh.500, narrowed again and built history."

“We are trying to reconfigure the system and see how best we can do. We have a social responsibility to bring them into the financial space.”